TOAA, Then PR Beyonder who is 1 million x Cosmics should also easily be > TOAA. Or dropping Thanos on his butt with a disciplinary blast when Thanos and Silver Surfer were acting unruly. So no one is fodder here, even to the TOAA. Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. No, he didn’t. It's like the current DC writers don't know what to do with god like characters because it's become a shit show. That is the definition of breaking of hierarchy, and it is in direct conflict with the official. 1 Summary 2 Powers and Stats 3 Others 4 Discussions Doctor Victor Von Doom is the dictator of the small European country Latveria and the archnemesis of the Fantastic Four. I understand your point but there is no breaking of hierarchy here at all. The power of the regulator is universal at best. Previously, we had two tag-teams that has beaten the tag-team of Superman & Sentry twice in both rounds, the first one was Darkseid & Thanos and the second one was Doctor Fate & Doctor Strange. It was Thanos with the power of the regulator that replaced TOAA, and by ”replaced” I didn’t mean he defeated him but exactly as the word itself points towards the fact, that TOAA was absorbed into Thanos and replaced by him. @Aristeaus: Well that is it right? That was just how it was portrayed. Thanos absorbed above all others, not TOAA. Adult Franklin or Multi-eternity the guy oneshotted the quintessence and stated he’s the strongest he’s ever been while being the true form of Darkseid. Even if TOAA is not included, LT, Eternity, Death, Infinity, etc are. Here is another Marvel Editors quote, Andy Schmidt: "Someone else answered this later, but just so you get it from me as well: MARVEL UNIVERSE: THE END is an out of continuity story". Bullshit. Strange never fought Beyonder and was in fact terrified of his power. @Aristeaus: It was one Death shown in the comic. Problem is even with your interpretation it doesn't help your position. I understand your point but there is no breaking of hierarchy here at all. And it looks like Strange is attacking Beyonder in that last shot. Starlin and Brevoorts dislike of one another is well know, and Starlin quit Marvel because of it. If you look at the current comics and compare them to what were written 30 years ago, you would spot a vast difference and contradictions in abundance. DC is honestly making too many multiversal characters not that it’s an issue, but at least have a good narrative even in fed up, but the Black Adam narrative is looking good though. The BEYONDER IS one whole MILLION times stonger than the multiverse which is infinite and but I am talking about the pre-retcon Beyonder because any other Beyonder … Seriously? He’s had multiple upgrades since the classic days, he’s always been that tier; and is better now. He put MOST of his power in a cup and gave it Death and that was how much it cost him to actually kill an abstract being. Who else could it be if not TOAA? This is very well established by marvel. No to both. Where is that from? It can exist in every galaxy and it will still be multiversal if that is what it does. It keeps universes apart but its absorption power can just work on a scale beyond that. The Beyonders powers were considered to be even more vast than that of Eternity and the Living Tribunal. Or perhaps that was multi Death. He is the mysterious leader of the Tarot Club known as The Fool and a Transmigrator who comes from the modern era. TOAA specifically stated that EACH universe has a Regulator. Any Beyonder is fodder to TOAA. In other words how did Starlin mistakenly portray the LT at all when all of these writers did it before? Going with the sorcerers, without The infinity Gauntlet I don't see either of team two being able to break the bonds of Cyttorak, then and easy bfr to a randomly created pocket dimension. As to why it is not called a What If story, likely because What If's are generally pretty contained stories, where as end is rather expanded. It is the regulator at work at this point. TheAnqara for supporting me on creating the page TheUnknownWatcher for lots of things mamythepara for supporting me DarknessReaper9 for fixing the page name Thanos used its power to absorb all entities, even TOAA himself, into his being. They are never mentioned as the same being, and there are implications that they are not. It doesn’t matter their distribution. It isn't even a alternate dimension. But chose to show him virtue. Donny Cates also said that Knull was still alive in that reality as nothing can kill him, which is just as ludicrous as anything Starlin has done/said. If it were multiversal, there would not need to be one in every universe. But that's not actually what happened in their actual encounter, Strange actually probed his mind (with the Eye of Agamotto which isn't as it's depicted here) to discover who and what he was, and what he discovered left Strange stricken with fear and amazement. @Aristeaus: If I am not mistaken he used the word “all reality”, and that should indicate the omniverse as we know it, at most. I don’t know. How do you know? Before this the elder gods were said to have created the cosmos as were Odin and Zeus, and recently that was attributed to the first firmament and Phoenix. Finally there are people commenting! Well, Thanos’s history has been edited several times and even the beginning of the cosmos has been re invented because some writers don’t have enough time to go back and read older comics to go by the same lore, so by definition at least half the company has thrown all the past establishments down the river already. The Ultimate Nullifier is a fictional device of immense power appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics.The device made its first appearance in Fantastic Four volume 1, issue #50 (May 1966), in which Johnny Storm retrieves it from the home of Galactus (as directed by Uatu the Watcher) for the Fantastic Four to employ against the threat of Galactus himself. It depends on which rules you are using. Kids love Cates’ comics. What have you presented other than lies and misconceptions which you seem to have made up for yourself because you disagree with what is going on in comics? Dr Strange and Dr Fate, mainly due to prep. Literally no evidence to suggest that they are the same. It is all about comic sales. Because you dishonestly dismissed the regulator factor, assuming it is the work of the power of the abstracts that Thanos absorbed before that, doesn’t mean that it only is the abstracts that amounted to it. But that's not actually what happened in their actual encounter, Strange actually probed his mind (with the Eye of Agamotto which isn't as it's depicted here) to discover who and what he was, and what he discovered left Strange stricken with fear and amazement. Can't have it both ways. LT was shown dying in an alternate reality in the Thanos run by Donny Cates, so why did nobody complain about that or exclude it from Marvel‘s main continuity? Regulator Thanos and Oblivion being two of them, as they don't make sense without them being separate entities. Strange was able to reverse the affects on Beyonders reality warping on a building, which is something. Don't think Thanos' prep is gonna change the tides either. If The End is not canon, then the infinity trilogy cannot be either. Not the same being? The Doctors are way more impressive imo.. You sure about that? Using Infinity as a example is just wrong as it is not a alternate reality. No... No. Finally a comment! It depends on which rules you are using. Lol even though current Thanos is more powerful, and Classic is still current, quite funny how people still don’t know this. Well I don’t understand what you are trying to say but as far as it goes there were no visible consequences to any of Thanos’ grand stories after Marvel: The End except for Thanos himself and those he know personally. If it isn’t a part of their continuity, why does it have the title “Marvel”? Strange did fight Mystic, who was a Thanosi that rivaled Thanos himself (his own words) and it fits considering Warrior was actually 4 or 5 times physically stronger than Thanos. It doesn’t depend on the End. @jonathancarlton: lol and he can still do that now, in fact he’s more powerful and has upgrades since then. But yeah, I get your point. What he did was debate the pros and cons of trapping an at the time drunk Beyonder in his drunken state and locking him away. However, if any character in the gauntlet scales around or below The Quintessence as a collective and Spectre then they get automatically squished. The son of a Romani witch, Cynthia von Doom, he was orphaned at a young age and grew into a brilliant, stubborn man who used his technology to protect his people. They don’t need to think and follow heavy dialogues with complex thinking because all Cates gives them is just poorly done fight scenes with pretty color lol. He was stated to be more powerful then the entire marvel multiverse.... by millions of times over. The End and Infinity (newer ones ) are not referenced at all in his official report on Marvel.com for this same reason. Darkseid was messing around during his fight against Mordru. @Aristeaus: I am cool with the dead lts by Beyonder though. @divyansh13: Yeah, but The Ultimate Ultimates, First Firmament, True Form Oblivion, the Molecule Man who trapped the dead omniverse into a box, and Regulator Thanos would make him their dog. It is a short summary that doesn’t take accounts for all the comics that the characters have been in. @jonathancarlton: You catch my drift, but one thing for sure, is that Thanos is more powerful now and his feats show it. watch superman knocking this darkseid around too. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. TOAA as we know him already lives in a realm that is separated from it and once the multiverse dies he doesn’t die with it seen from Thanos himself when he observed entropy. What's your reasoning? I am not arguing on his behalf. Those two need more tech/other equipment to prep more effectively, That gives the Doctors even more of an advantage, considering that they can cook up traps, protection etc with their magic, which offers more versatility in comparison to Darkseid & Thanos. 1 Introduction 2 The Rules 3 Notes 4 See also There are several massive problems with using power-scaling for these two prominent franchises that have shared hundreds of different authors over several decades. They could all be the same being, or aspects of each other, but as of currently there is no evidence to support any of those positions. It does. Both of these are reasons for him to be a powerful cosmic, but not on the level of PR Beyonder. Still, that is beside the point because Thanos only used Regulator to absorb them. Mjolnir retcon, Thanos’s origin retcon, Marvel’s Earth retcon... And yet none of them got any complaints... Inconsistencies appear left and right. Bruh i don´t understand this wank about PR Beyonder this dude is no longer in Marvel´s top 5. First Firmament is stronger then Eternity, but that doesn't mean anything to PR Beyonder. But the Thanos killing lt in the future? It doesn’t depend on the End. Galactus is now dead and his power cosmic has been thoroughly spent and it is a disaster to Marvel cosmology but no one prevented King in Black from being published. There could just be one, and it does all the work. He was basically TOAA before TOAA was established. Ladies and gentlemen! Why? In Secret Wars, Beyonders killed LT, and he had a body drop on the same moon in every universe. The abstracts also had to call for help from Molecule Man to beat him and Molecule Man was just a being from within the multiverse itself. Um, Thanos went from no-selling Odin's first energy blast that one-shotted Silver Surfer without a scratch from the Classic era to having a bleeding mouth from getting sucker punched by Sub-Mariner. There has never been a hierachy to break in the first place. Molecule Man goes to show you just how powerful PR Beyonder is. Thus being relegated to being non-canon. He killed EVERY death from across the multiverse. But still, I can't see Classic Thanos getting his heart ripped out of his body by Classic Drax the same way Modern Thanos got his heart ripped out his body by Modern Drax if we go by consistencies. But chose to show him virtue. Who are they? Meanwhile, on Earth-1610, Nick Fury was making the final arrangements for the upcoming and final incursion, and soon after sent all of S.H.I.E.L.D. His point was that PR Beyonder wouldn't even be Top 5, and the only person listed that might be stronger then him is Regulator Thanos. We seem to disagree on Regulators innate power, and no amount of arguing is going to change that. No, Marvel is known to breaking established rules Stan Lee and Kirby had. Today Thor may stomp Spider-Man but tomorrow Spiderman would beat the Beyonder. Each universe does not have their own. Beyonder could be a aspect of TOAA, though there isn't really any evidence for that. Unless of course they have anti god squish feats. True form Oblivion doesn't seem to have much feats. At one point Starlin brought Adam Warlock back, and Marvel put out a company wide no-use to prevent him from causing more trouble within the establish hierarchy. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The way the story goes is that Starlin submitted the idea for the series, as basically another infinity gauntlet, which was approved, but when he submitted half the story to the editors they had serious problems as it conflicted with hierarchy and in general wasn't what Starlin had proposed. It wasn’t those Abstracts that took down TOAA. Where is your proof for that? Beyonder is fodder and doesn’t compare to TOAA. Future Thanos probably has some limitations but they weren’t explained. was everything outside the Marvel Multiverse, (Infinite Beyond), was GOD before Genesis, (a Supreme Being). A very good panel, I must say. Regulator Thanos is universal. Anyway, so my point is that while we can use it as a character for battles and what have you, you should not use breaking of established rules to prove your points. Those two need more tech/other equipment to prep more effectively. That single panel annoys the hell out of me. Nearly everything is in conflict with the official. Strange never fought Beyonder (cosmic threats sure but that's a huge jump) and was in fact terrified of his power. @divyansh13: From what i remember 8th cosmo Eternit embraces Living Tribunal. Beyonder was around before TOAA was established, unlike someone like Fulcrum. You said it my man! @king-ragnar@battle123axe@bramvanelteren@punyaamrit:@cosmic_demon: @captfalcon725@asgardianweapon@ouroborik: @thevoidofdeath@captfalcon725@cull_obsidian@punyaamrit: Well, I thank you whoever voted in the battle poll, but I would also appreciate it if you leave a comment behind in the battle thread as well. @jonathancarlton: classic Strange fights beings like Beyonder and Zom, Thanos and Uxas don't have really any good feats like that. At best he is multi-versal, and PR Beyonder is by his very being Omniversal. And here, all the regulators could be special and multiversal. @Aristeaus: They are the same being. I think it is quite cool. The infinite beyond doesn’t seem to give him a lot of power at all seeing as he struggled to kill Mistress Death. Doctor Victor Von Doom is a fictional supervillain appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics.Created by writer-editor Stan Lee and artist/co-plotter Jack Kirby, the character made his debut in The Fantastic Four #5 (July 1962). As far as the difference, its not very clear. It exists in every universe. I don’t know. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Starlin wasn’t retconning anything but was writing based on his and previous canon before they got retconned. He is a Beyonder and God of the Fool Pathway. Then you have Thanos messing around with Odin. It has history from the End, which continues with another storylines as well. Its not in the continuity of Marvel at all. I didn't tag so many people just so that they can only vote and not comment, dattebayo. 's fleet towards Earth-616. Not the editors or writers. It isn’t an “End storyline”. At absolute best you have 2 characters that are equal to PR Beyonder. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. Then there is the fact that there are half a dozen cosmics now credited with creation, which gets real confusing real quick. Apart from the classic era, before 2000s, the most notable appearances are in the infinity run. That wasn't Earth-616 Thanos who got arrested by NYPD, it was Earth-57780 Thanos who got arrested by NYPD. Boys and girls of all ages! None of them would be top 5 on their own. If it isn’t a part of their continuity, why does it have the title “Marvel”? All he did so far was stomp the Quintessence. I was getting worried that every Comic Viners must have left Comic Vine or something like that. 3 or 4 times now just this year and they were all just wtf moments. PR Beyonder is the TOAA of his own multiverse. Such as Starlin himself having Strange easily defeat a clone described in Thanos' own words to rival his own power. I get the comic sales angle, but damn that one panel really infuriates me. lol. Marvel.com is about as official as it gets. Infinity Conflict is part of a The End storyline, and if The End is not canon, then Infinity Conflict cannot be either. Goes to show you just how far Starlin went in some of his shit, that they let Cates do that crazy shit lol. You cannot kill one death and have it effect the entire multiverse. He defeated King Thanos and Phoenix Force Thane in a fight after the Quarry of Creation amp. He was willing to (and knew he would) die to protect humanity if Beyonder decided on a whim to destroy them, because of how dangerous and inconsequential it was to him. @jonathancarlton: Yeah, the confusion comes from this page.Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. @jonathancarlton: Yeah, the confusion comes from this page. It has got to be the single worst panel in Marvel history. He never said it once and if he did why didn’t he publish it down the handbook instead of vaguely stating it elsewhere? Though interesting to note that editors have directly compared What If? Starlin has a habit of breaking established rules, specifically with LT and TOAA. Galactus is the first being to appear in 616 cosmos of course because he existed before the previous Big Bang but from Thanos’s perspective the beginning of all things is the nexus of all reality where Chaos and Order live. It could appear anywhere it wishes to be. That's like a big power decrease during the Modern era. Don't you mean stronger than that tier? Does it matter its distribution? Question, has Pre-Crisis Darkseid ever fought against Pre-Crisis Doctor Fate or has Classic Thanos ever fought against Classic Doctor Strange? It is your assumption they have to be limited to universal in power. There's a reason the doctors don't have a history of facing those respective characters from their verses. Regardless, he is the TOAA of his multiverse, which is much much larger then the Marvel multiverse. Also, not sure if you are aware of this, but there is only ONE Living Tribunal. I am very surprised that no one has brought up The Great Darkness Saga discussion just like the last time so far. @jonathancarlton: lol and he can still do that now, in fact he’s more powerful and has upgrades since then. Shrouded in the fog of history and darkness, who or what is the lurking evil that murmurs into our ears? There is a reason why Thanos had to absorb various entities before hand. So how is LT one? Likely something to do with M-Bodies or some weird way of showing LT being multiversal. There are many Thanoses but still the 616 one is very special, just like canon Superman is more special than other Supermen according to Forger. The End and Infinity are not within the marvel multiverse, as they are not in the Marvel continuity at all, and I'll prove that here in a second. They are entirely different beings. On one side of the Multiverse, Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, and the Molecule Man were confronting the Beyonders.They demanded to know who dared stand before them, and Doom presented himself. You can’t use one feat and say he hasn’t improved, his feats as a whole show he has; check a respect thread; because if that’s the case Thanos got handcuffed in the classic days lol. Classic strange is like SA superman. He said all of the marvel reality, which encompasses TOAA. Not really since they are comparable in stats except for haxs. By that same logic, PR Beyonder is millions of times stronger then all the abstracts in Marvel. None of which have been confirmed to be aspects, but that is the reason for aspect speculation in the first place, as its pretty much the only plausible, currently available, theory. @kokemabb200@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf@jaycool2@vooon@oceanmaster21, @agentsandman@cosmic_reign@citizensentry@silverplatinum@serrure@shenkuei@darkseid1006@cosmicallyaware1@jonez120@laylah@wastelandman@laylah@jrupert1@jaycool2@conner_wolf, @dondave@killemall@hellionvulcan@cheesesticks@nighthunder@homicidalmaniac@king_stranglehold_da_first@serrure@thor_parker82@hulkage@comicdude360@misterwhisper@notatreeabush@emperorthanos@agentsandman@ouroborik@bullettimer@cosmic_reign@darth_wayne@jaycool2@cull_obsidian@battle123axe@onepieceverse@cull_obsidian@superentity@rac95@causeimbatman@death2heretics@kingfrieza, @beatboks1@wastelandman@jrupert1@agentsandman@lanniblehecter@revan2424, @the_imperator@themagicstik@comicstooge@ancient_0f_days@demonknights@nighthunder@patrat18@zeroplus@darkseid1006@ouroborik@hollow_point@emperorthanos@darth_wayne@sly_141@kingcurry30@cull_obsidian@lanniblehecter@onepieceverse@chronicplane@blackpantherisb, @oceanmaster21@ouroborik@heraldofganthet@batman3000@matchesmalone21@blackpantherisb, @cable_extreme@thor_parker82@onepieceverse@jaycool2@newworldorder@conner_wolf, @cosmicallyaware1@primez0ne@cosmic_reign@jaycool2@educated. It is self preservation. Stops and dies at Eternity or Living Tribunal. They are the same character. Special thanks. @jonathancarlton: Does the part with no equipment means that neither Team just starts with equipment or that they are also not allowed to get equipment during their prep time? That is his own words and they are more of an exaggeration if it took him that much power just to eradicate one fundamental abstract from the multiverse. It wasn't the portrayal of LT, but the dialog suggesting that there are multiple LTs... which is just empirically not true. I think he needs more feats. Infinity specifically depends on The End. and The End. Well, Thanos’s history has been edited several times and even the beginning of the cosmos has been re invented because some writers don’t have enough time to go back and read older comics to go by the same lore, so by definition at least half the company has thrown all the past establishments down the river already. Shouldn't the Doctors be able to murder stomp the Dark Lords? @Aristeaus: Author statements from outside of their officially published sources barely mean anything though. and in comparison with the entire Marvel Reality the Beyond Realm was like an Ocean. Darkseid and Thanos isn't really that impressive featwise. Event Synopsis. @thor-el: idk about Ultimate ultimates but isn't first firmament below LT? First Firmament is stronger then Eternity, but that doesn't mean anything to PR Beyonder. Maybe you can explain how someone who can kill LT and a bunch of cosmics, needed Black-Bolt, someone who couldn't even kill Thanos, to kill a bunch of celestials. Not a very fun position to argue against. He never seemed to have acknowledged the higher concepts that Marvel has within itself by that time or the existence of TOAA, who also was separated from creation itself. Its just basic logic. Or perhaps that was multi Death. Klein Moretti is the main protagonist of Lord of the Mysteries. The Editor in Chief of marvel explained this. Doctor Strange never fought against Beyonder though, even if he did, it would be an outlier since he openly admitted that Living Tribunal could kill him with a thought. Why is it not a what if story instead? With the rising tide of steam power and machinery, who can come close to being a Beyonder? @Aristeaus: But it is a site, though. It is I, @jonathancarlton here to host another epic Detective Comics vs Marvel Comics tag-team battle poll thread here in Comic Vine! This wasn't even them at their strongest since Thanos has yet to fully develop his powers and Darkseid was weakened. It was one Death shown in the comic. I am talking about published sources. How does Thanos knows how powerful Thanosi is? @Aristeaus: He only said marvel multiverse. Appearing anywhere he wants within the marvel multiverse. They have have the power and outclass them in versatility. Even if you disagree with my reasonings, at least I presented a argument. Ultimates are a group of cosmics. Oblivion is just a rival of Infinity, and came into existence with Eternity, Death, and Infinity. He needed to get stronger, even with the regulator, and then needed his past selfs help to accomplish the feat. Tom Brevoort has publicly stated that it is not in marvel continuity. And he has shown his magic can affect him. Don't get me started on the King Thanos storyline. The Tribunal serves ONE master and even if it isn’t TOAA it is greater than TOAA because The Tribunal admitted he has no knowledge of beings greater than The Above All Others who rules all universes and even beyond that. @Aristeaus: No, it is your fantasy. I was getting worried that everyone must has left or something like that! Adam Warlock from an alternate reality has the power of his living tribunal while in Thanos reality there exists another living tribunal. It has history from the End, which continues with another storylines as well. Can you explain the difference please? Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. There is no proof one way or the other, so just gonna move on. Its function is to keep universes apart. Oblivion is just a rival of Infinity, and came into existence with Eternity, Death, and Infinity. That gives the Doctors even more of an advantage, considering that they can cook up traps, protection etc with their magic, which offers more versatility in comparison to Darkseid & Thanos. There is only one LT, but Regulator heavily implies the opposite. Not that I disagree with you. "haha cry noob 4th braker I am stronger than yo haha cry n000000000000000000000000b" cc after he realised he was a lot stroger than 4th breaker z sans tba. Editors are a higher source then even the writer themselves, as they are responsible for maintaining the storylines. He was willing to (and knew he would) die to protect humanity if Beyonder decided on a whim to destroy them, because of how dangerous he was and inconsequential it was to him. Curious on where you saw him struggle to kill Mistress Death. That quote is from Marvel.com. You can’t use one feat and say he hasn’t improved, his feats as a whole show he has, check a respect thread; because if that’s the case Thanos got handcuffed in the classic days lol. Insanely powerful. It is a different type of power. Barrowell Green Appointments, Cro Information Leaflet No 1, Rdck Yard Waste, Racial Profiling: Definition Canada, Mexico Debt Crisis, Lancaster Police Station, First Trust Global Wind Energy Etf, " /> TOAA, Then PR Beyonder who is 1 million x Cosmics should also easily be > TOAA. Or dropping Thanos on his butt with a disciplinary blast when Thanos and Silver Surfer were acting unruly. So no one is fodder here, even to the TOAA. Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. No, he didn’t. It's like the current DC writers don't know what to do with god like characters because it's become a shit show. That is the definition of breaking of hierarchy, and it is in direct conflict with the official. 1 Summary 2 Powers and Stats 3 Others 4 Discussions Doctor Victor Von Doom is the dictator of the small European country Latveria and the archnemesis of the Fantastic Four. I understand your point but there is no breaking of hierarchy here at all. The power of the regulator is universal at best. Previously, we had two tag-teams that has beaten the tag-team of Superman & Sentry twice in both rounds, the first one was Darkseid & Thanos and the second one was Doctor Fate & Doctor Strange. It was Thanos with the power of the regulator that replaced TOAA, and by ”replaced” I didn’t mean he defeated him but exactly as the word itself points towards the fact, that TOAA was absorbed into Thanos and replaced by him. @Aristeaus: Well that is it right? That was just how it was portrayed. Thanos absorbed above all others, not TOAA. Adult Franklin or Multi-eternity the guy oneshotted the quintessence and stated he’s the strongest he’s ever been while being the true form of Darkseid. Even if TOAA is not included, LT, Eternity, Death, Infinity, etc are. Here is another Marvel Editors quote, Andy Schmidt: "Someone else answered this later, but just so you get it from me as well: MARVEL UNIVERSE: THE END is an out of continuity story". Bullshit. Strange never fought Beyonder and was in fact terrified of his power. @Aristeaus: It was one Death shown in the comic. Problem is even with your interpretation it doesn't help your position. I understand your point but there is no breaking of hierarchy here at all. And it looks like Strange is attacking Beyonder in that last shot. Starlin and Brevoorts dislike of one another is well know, and Starlin quit Marvel because of it. If you look at the current comics and compare them to what were written 30 years ago, you would spot a vast difference and contradictions in abundance. DC is honestly making too many multiversal characters not that it’s an issue, but at least have a good narrative even in fed up, but the Black Adam narrative is looking good though. The BEYONDER IS one whole MILLION times stonger than the multiverse which is infinite and but I am talking about the pre-retcon Beyonder because any other Beyonder … Seriously? He’s had multiple upgrades since the classic days, he’s always been that tier; and is better now. He put MOST of his power in a cup and gave it Death and that was how much it cost him to actually kill an abstract being. Who else could it be if not TOAA? This is very well established by marvel. No to both. Where is that from? It can exist in every galaxy and it will still be multiversal if that is what it does. It keeps universes apart but its absorption power can just work on a scale beyond that. The Beyonders powers were considered to be even more vast than that of Eternity and the Living Tribunal. Or perhaps that was multi Death. He is the mysterious leader of the Tarot Club known as The Fool and a Transmigrator who comes from the modern era. TOAA specifically stated that EACH universe has a Regulator. Any Beyonder is fodder to TOAA. In other words how did Starlin mistakenly portray the LT at all when all of these writers did it before? Going with the sorcerers, without The infinity Gauntlet I don't see either of team two being able to break the bonds of Cyttorak, then and easy bfr to a randomly created pocket dimension. As to why it is not called a What If story, likely because What If's are generally pretty contained stories, where as end is rather expanded. It is the regulator at work at this point. TheAnqara for supporting me on creating the page TheUnknownWatcher for lots of things mamythepara for supporting me DarknessReaper9 for fixing the page name Thanos used its power to absorb all entities, even TOAA himself, into his being. They are never mentioned as the same being, and there are implications that they are not. It doesn’t matter their distribution. It isn't even a alternate dimension. But chose to show him virtue. Donny Cates also said that Knull was still alive in that reality as nothing can kill him, which is just as ludicrous as anything Starlin has done/said. If it were multiversal, there would not need to be one in every universe. But that's not actually what happened in their actual encounter, Strange actually probed his mind (with the Eye of Agamotto which isn't as it's depicted here) to discover who and what he was, and what he discovered left Strange stricken with fear and amazement. @Aristeaus: If I am not mistaken he used the word “all reality”, and that should indicate the omniverse as we know it, at most. I don’t know. How do you know? Before this the elder gods were said to have created the cosmos as were Odin and Zeus, and recently that was attributed to the first firmament and Phoenix. Finally there are people commenting! Well, Thanos’s history has been edited several times and even the beginning of the cosmos has been re invented because some writers don’t have enough time to go back and read older comics to go by the same lore, so by definition at least half the company has thrown all the past establishments down the river already. The Ultimate Nullifier is a fictional device of immense power appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics.The device made its first appearance in Fantastic Four volume 1, issue #50 (May 1966), in which Johnny Storm retrieves it from the home of Galactus (as directed by Uatu the Watcher) for the Fantastic Four to employ against the threat of Galactus himself. It depends on which rules you are using. Kids love Cates’ comics. What have you presented other than lies and misconceptions which you seem to have made up for yourself because you disagree with what is going on in comics? Dr Strange and Dr Fate, mainly due to prep. Literally no evidence to suggest that they are the same. It is all about comic sales. Because you dishonestly dismissed the regulator factor, assuming it is the work of the power of the abstracts that Thanos absorbed before that, doesn’t mean that it only is the abstracts that amounted to it. But that's not actually what happened in their actual encounter, Strange actually probed his mind (with the Eye of Agamotto which isn't as it's depicted here) to discover who and what he was, and what he discovered left Strange stricken with fear and amazement. Can't have it both ways. LT was shown dying in an alternate reality in the Thanos run by Donny Cates, so why did nobody complain about that or exclude it from Marvel‘s main continuity? Regulator Thanos and Oblivion being two of them, as they don't make sense without them being separate entities. Strange was able to reverse the affects on Beyonders reality warping on a building, which is something. Don't think Thanos' prep is gonna change the tides either. If The End is not canon, then the infinity trilogy cannot be either. Not the same being? The Doctors are way more impressive imo.. You sure about that? Using Infinity as a example is just wrong as it is not a alternate reality. No... No. Finally a comment! It depends on which rules you are using. Lol even though current Thanos is more powerful, and Classic is still current, quite funny how people still don’t know this. Well I don’t understand what you are trying to say but as far as it goes there were no visible consequences to any of Thanos’ grand stories after Marvel: The End except for Thanos himself and those he know personally. If it isn’t a part of their continuity, why does it have the title “Marvel”? Strange did fight Mystic, who was a Thanosi that rivaled Thanos himself (his own words) and it fits considering Warrior was actually 4 or 5 times physically stronger than Thanos. It doesn’t depend on the End. @jonathancarlton: lol and he can still do that now, in fact he’s more powerful and has upgrades since then. But yeah, I get your point. What he did was debate the pros and cons of trapping an at the time drunk Beyonder in his drunken state and locking him away. However, if any character in the gauntlet scales around or below The Quintessence as a collective and Spectre then they get automatically squished. The son of a Romani witch, Cynthia von Doom, he was orphaned at a young age and grew into a brilliant, stubborn man who used his technology to protect his people. They don’t need to think and follow heavy dialogues with complex thinking because all Cates gives them is just poorly done fight scenes with pretty color lol. He was stated to be more powerful then the entire marvel multiverse.... by millions of times over. The End and Infinity (newer ones ) are not referenced at all in his official report on Marvel.com for this same reason. Darkseid was messing around during his fight against Mordru. @Aristeaus: I am cool with the dead lts by Beyonder though. @divyansh13: Yeah, but The Ultimate Ultimates, First Firmament, True Form Oblivion, the Molecule Man who trapped the dead omniverse into a box, and Regulator Thanos would make him their dog. It is a short summary that doesn’t take accounts for all the comics that the characters have been in. @jonathancarlton: You catch my drift, but one thing for sure, is that Thanos is more powerful now and his feats show it. watch superman knocking this darkseid around too. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. TOAA as we know him already lives in a realm that is separated from it and once the multiverse dies he doesn’t die with it seen from Thanos himself when he observed entropy. What's your reasoning? I am not arguing on his behalf. Those two need more tech/other equipment to prep more effectively, That gives the Doctors even more of an advantage, considering that they can cook up traps, protection etc with their magic, which offers more versatility in comparison to Darkseid & Thanos. 1 Introduction 2 The Rules 3 Notes 4 See also There are several massive problems with using power-scaling for these two prominent franchises that have shared hundreds of different authors over several decades. They could all be the same being, or aspects of each other, but as of currently there is no evidence to support any of those positions. It does. Both of these are reasons for him to be a powerful cosmic, but not on the level of PR Beyonder. Still, that is beside the point because Thanos only used Regulator to absorb them. Mjolnir retcon, Thanos’s origin retcon, Marvel’s Earth retcon... And yet none of them got any complaints... Inconsistencies appear left and right. Bruh i don´t understand this wank about PR Beyonder this dude is no longer in Marvel´s top 5. First Firmament is stronger then Eternity, but that doesn't mean anything to PR Beyonder. But the Thanos killing lt in the future? It doesn’t depend on the End. Galactus is now dead and his power cosmic has been thoroughly spent and it is a disaster to Marvel cosmology but no one prevented King in Black from being published. There could just be one, and it does all the work. He was basically TOAA before TOAA was established. Ladies and gentlemen! Why? In Secret Wars, Beyonders killed LT, and he had a body drop on the same moon in every universe. The abstracts also had to call for help from Molecule Man to beat him and Molecule Man was just a being from within the multiverse itself. Um, Thanos went from no-selling Odin's first energy blast that one-shotted Silver Surfer without a scratch from the Classic era to having a bleeding mouth from getting sucker punched by Sub-Mariner. There has never been a hierachy to break in the first place. Molecule Man goes to show you just how powerful PR Beyonder is. Thus being relegated to being non-canon. He killed EVERY death from across the multiverse. But still, I can't see Classic Thanos getting his heart ripped out of his body by Classic Drax the same way Modern Thanos got his heart ripped out his body by Modern Drax if we go by consistencies. But chose to show him virtue. Who are they? Meanwhile, on Earth-1610, Nick Fury was making the final arrangements for the upcoming and final incursion, and soon after sent all of S.H.I.E.L.D. His point was that PR Beyonder wouldn't even be Top 5, and the only person listed that might be stronger then him is Regulator Thanos. We seem to disagree on Regulators innate power, and no amount of arguing is going to change that. No, Marvel is known to breaking established rules Stan Lee and Kirby had. Today Thor may stomp Spider-Man but tomorrow Spiderman would beat the Beyonder. Each universe does not have their own. Beyonder could be a aspect of TOAA, though there isn't really any evidence for that. Unless of course they have anti god squish feats. True form Oblivion doesn't seem to have much feats. At one point Starlin brought Adam Warlock back, and Marvel put out a company wide no-use to prevent him from causing more trouble within the establish hierarchy. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The way the story goes is that Starlin submitted the idea for the series, as basically another infinity gauntlet, which was approved, but when he submitted half the story to the editors they had serious problems as it conflicted with hierarchy and in general wasn't what Starlin had proposed. It wasn’t those Abstracts that took down TOAA. Where is your proof for that? Beyonder is fodder and doesn’t compare to TOAA. Future Thanos probably has some limitations but they weren’t explained. was everything outside the Marvel Multiverse, (Infinite Beyond), was GOD before Genesis, (a Supreme Being). A very good panel, I must say. Regulator Thanos is universal. Anyway, so my point is that while we can use it as a character for battles and what have you, you should not use breaking of established rules to prove your points. Those two need more tech/other equipment to prep more effectively. That single panel annoys the hell out of me. Nearly everything is in conflict with the official. Strange never fought Beyonder (cosmic threats sure but that's a huge jump) and was in fact terrified of his power. @divyansh13: From what i remember 8th cosmo Eternit embraces Living Tribunal. Beyonder was around before TOAA was established, unlike someone like Fulcrum. You said it my man! @king-ragnar@battle123axe@bramvanelteren@punyaamrit:@cosmic_demon: @captfalcon725@asgardianweapon@ouroborik: @thevoidofdeath@captfalcon725@cull_obsidian@punyaamrit: Well, I thank you whoever voted in the battle poll, but I would also appreciate it if you leave a comment behind in the battle thread as well. @jonathancarlton: classic Strange fights beings like Beyonder and Zom, Thanos and Uxas don't have really any good feats like that. At best he is multi-versal, and PR Beyonder is by his very being Omniversal. And here, all the regulators could be special and multiversal. @Aristeaus: They are the same being. I think it is quite cool. The infinite beyond doesn’t seem to give him a lot of power at all seeing as he struggled to kill Mistress Death. Doctor Victor Von Doom is a fictional supervillain appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics.Created by writer-editor Stan Lee and artist/co-plotter Jack Kirby, the character made his debut in The Fantastic Four #5 (July 1962). As far as the difference, its not very clear. It exists in every universe. I don’t know. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Starlin wasn’t retconning anything but was writing based on his and previous canon before they got retconned. He is a Beyonder and God of the Fool Pathway. Then you have Thanos messing around with Odin. It has history from the End, which continues with another storylines as well. Its not in the continuity of Marvel at all. I didn't tag so many people just so that they can only vote and not comment, dattebayo. 's fleet towards Earth-616. Not the editors or writers. It isn’t an “End storyline”. At absolute best you have 2 characters that are equal to PR Beyonder. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. Then there is the fact that there are half a dozen cosmics now credited with creation, which gets real confusing real quick. Apart from the classic era, before 2000s, the most notable appearances are in the infinity run. That wasn't Earth-616 Thanos who got arrested by NYPD, it was Earth-57780 Thanos who got arrested by NYPD. Boys and girls of all ages! None of them would be top 5 on their own. If it isn’t a part of their continuity, why does it have the title “Marvel”? All he did so far was stomp the Quintessence. I was getting worried that every Comic Viners must have left Comic Vine or something like that. 3 or 4 times now just this year and they were all just wtf moments. PR Beyonder is the TOAA of his own multiverse. Such as Starlin himself having Strange easily defeat a clone described in Thanos' own words to rival his own power. I get the comic sales angle, but damn that one panel really infuriates me. lol. Marvel.com is about as official as it gets. Infinity Conflict is part of a The End storyline, and if The End is not canon, then Infinity Conflict cannot be either. Goes to show you just how far Starlin went in some of his shit, that they let Cates do that crazy shit lol. You cannot kill one death and have it effect the entire multiverse. He defeated King Thanos and Phoenix Force Thane in a fight after the Quarry of Creation amp. He was willing to (and knew he would) die to protect humanity if Beyonder decided on a whim to destroy them, because of how dangerous and inconsequential it was to him. @jonathancarlton: Yeah, the confusion comes from this page.Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. @jonathancarlton: Yeah, the confusion comes from this page. It has got to be the single worst panel in Marvel history. He never said it once and if he did why didn’t he publish it down the handbook instead of vaguely stating it elsewhere? Though interesting to note that editors have directly compared What If? Starlin has a habit of breaking established rules, specifically with LT and TOAA. Galactus is the first being to appear in 616 cosmos of course because he existed before the previous Big Bang but from Thanos’s perspective the beginning of all things is the nexus of all reality where Chaos and Order live. It could appear anywhere it wishes to be. That's like a big power decrease during the Modern era. Don't you mean stronger than that tier? Does it matter its distribution? Question, has Pre-Crisis Darkseid ever fought against Pre-Crisis Doctor Fate or has Classic Thanos ever fought against Classic Doctor Strange? It is your assumption they have to be limited to universal in power. There's a reason the doctors don't have a history of facing those respective characters from their verses. Regardless, he is the TOAA of his multiverse, which is much much larger then the Marvel multiverse. Also, not sure if you are aware of this, but there is only ONE Living Tribunal. I am very surprised that no one has brought up The Great Darkness Saga discussion just like the last time so far. @jonathancarlton: lol and he can still do that now, in fact he’s more powerful and has upgrades since then. Shrouded in the fog of history and darkness, who or what is the lurking evil that murmurs into our ears? There is a reason why Thanos had to absorb various entities before hand. So how is LT one? Likely something to do with M-Bodies or some weird way of showing LT being multiversal. There are many Thanoses but still the 616 one is very special, just like canon Superman is more special than other Supermen according to Forger. The End and Infinity are not within the marvel multiverse, as they are not in the Marvel continuity at all, and I'll prove that here in a second. They are entirely different beings. On one side of the Multiverse, Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, and the Molecule Man were confronting the Beyonders.They demanded to know who dared stand before them, and Doom presented himself. You can’t use one feat and say he hasn’t improved, his feats as a whole show he has; check a respect thread; because if that’s the case Thanos got handcuffed in the classic days lol. Classic strange is like SA superman. He said all of the marvel reality, which encompasses TOAA. Not really since they are comparable in stats except for haxs. By that same logic, PR Beyonder is millions of times stronger then all the abstracts in Marvel. None of which have been confirmed to be aspects, but that is the reason for aspect speculation in the first place, as its pretty much the only plausible, currently available, theory. @kokemabb200@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf@jaycool2@vooon@oceanmaster21, @agentsandman@cosmic_reign@citizensentry@silverplatinum@serrure@shenkuei@darkseid1006@cosmicallyaware1@jonez120@laylah@wastelandman@laylah@jrupert1@jaycool2@conner_wolf, @dondave@killemall@hellionvulcan@cheesesticks@nighthunder@homicidalmaniac@king_stranglehold_da_first@serrure@thor_parker82@hulkage@comicdude360@misterwhisper@notatreeabush@emperorthanos@agentsandman@ouroborik@bullettimer@cosmic_reign@darth_wayne@jaycool2@cull_obsidian@battle123axe@onepieceverse@cull_obsidian@superentity@rac95@causeimbatman@death2heretics@kingfrieza, @beatboks1@wastelandman@jrupert1@agentsandman@lanniblehecter@revan2424, @the_imperator@themagicstik@comicstooge@ancient_0f_days@demonknights@nighthunder@patrat18@zeroplus@darkseid1006@ouroborik@hollow_point@emperorthanos@darth_wayne@sly_141@kingcurry30@cull_obsidian@lanniblehecter@onepieceverse@chronicplane@blackpantherisb, @oceanmaster21@ouroborik@heraldofganthet@batman3000@matchesmalone21@blackpantherisb, @cable_extreme@thor_parker82@onepieceverse@jaycool2@newworldorder@conner_wolf, @cosmicallyaware1@primez0ne@cosmic_reign@jaycool2@educated. It is self preservation. Stops and dies at Eternity or Living Tribunal. They are the same character. Special thanks. @jonathancarlton: Does the part with no equipment means that neither Team just starts with equipment or that they are also not allowed to get equipment during their prep time? That is his own words and they are more of an exaggeration if it took him that much power just to eradicate one fundamental abstract from the multiverse. It wasn't the portrayal of LT, but the dialog suggesting that there are multiple LTs... which is just empirically not true. I think he needs more feats. Infinity specifically depends on The End. and The End. Well, Thanos’s history has been edited several times and even the beginning of the cosmos has been re invented because some writers don’t have enough time to go back and read older comics to go by the same lore, so by definition at least half the company has thrown all the past establishments down the river already. Shouldn't the Doctors be able to murder stomp the Dark Lords? @Aristeaus: Author statements from outside of their officially published sources barely mean anything though. and in comparison with the entire Marvel Reality the Beyond Realm was like an Ocean. Darkseid and Thanos isn't really that impressive featwise. Event Synopsis. @thor-el: idk about Ultimate ultimates but isn't first firmament below LT? First Firmament is stronger then Eternity, but that doesn't mean anything to PR Beyonder. Maybe you can explain how someone who can kill LT and a bunch of cosmics, needed Black-Bolt, someone who couldn't even kill Thanos, to kill a bunch of celestials. Not a very fun position to argue against. He never seemed to have acknowledged the higher concepts that Marvel has within itself by that time or the existence of TOAA, who also was separated from creation itself. Its just basic logic. Or perhaps that was multi Death. Klein Moretti is the main protagonist of Lord of the Mysteries. The Editor in Chief of marvel explained this. Doctor Strange never fought against Beyonder though, even if he did, it would be an outlier since he openly admitted that Living Tribunal could kill him with a thought. Why is it not a what if story instead? With the rising tide of steam power and machinery, who can come close to being a Beyonder? @Aristeaus: But it is a site, though. It is I, @jonathancarlton here to host another epic Detective Comics vs Marvel Comics tag-team battle poll thread here in Comic Vine! This wasn't even them at their strongest since Thanos has yet to fully develop his powers and Darkseid was weakened. It was one Death shown in the comic. I am talking about published sources. How does Thanos knows how powerful Thanosi is? @Aristeaus: He only said marvel multiverse. Appearing anywhere he wants within the marvel multiverse. They have have the power and outclass them in versatility. Even if you disagree with my reasonings, at least I presented a argument. Ultimates are a group of cosmics. Oblivion is just a rival of Infinity, and came into existence with Eternity, Death, and Infinity. He needed to get stronger, even with the regulator, and then needed his past selfs help to accomplish the feat. Tom Brevoort has publicly stated that it is not in marvel continuity. And he has shown his magic can affect him. Don't get me started on the King Thanos storyline. The Tribunal serves ONE master and even if it isn’t TOAA it is greater than TOAA because The Tribunal admitted he has no knowledge of beings greater than The Above All Others who rules all universes and even beyond that. @Aristeaus: No, it is your fantasy. I was getting worried that everyone must has left or something like that! Adam Warlock from an alternate reality has the power of his living tribunal while in Thanos reality there exists another living tribunal. It has history from the End, which continues with another storylines as well. Can you explain the difference please? Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. There is no proof one way or the other, so just gonna move on. Its function is to keep universes apart. Oblivion is just a rival of Infinity, and came into existence with Eternity, Death, and Infinity. That gives the Doctors even more of an advantage, considering that they can cook up traps, protection etc with their magic, which offers more versatility in comparison to Darkseid & Thanos. There is only one LT, but Regulator heavily implies the opposite. Not that I disagree with you. "haha cry noob 4th braker I am stronger than yo haha cry n000000000000000000000000b" cc after he realised he was a lot stroger than 4th breaker z sans tba. Editors are a higher source then even the writer themselves, as they are responsible for maintaining the storylines. He was willing to (and knew he would) die to protect humanity if Beyonder decided on a whim to destroy them, because of how dangerous he was and inconsequential it was to him. Curious on where you saw him struggle to kill Mistress Death. That quote is from Marvel.com. You can’t use one feat and say he hasn’t improved, his feats as a whole show he has, check a respect thread; because if that’s the case Thanos got handcuffed in the classic days lol. Insanely powerful. It is a different type of power. Barrowell Green Appointments, Cro Information Leaflet No 1, Rdck Yard Waste, Racial Profiling: Definition Canada, Mexico Debt Crisis, Lancaster Police Station, First Trust Global Wind Energy Etf, " />
Tin tức

is the beyonder stronger than the beyonders

Fate also is off the scale. @Aristeaus: Author statements from outside of their officially published sources barely mean anything though. He is capable of causing destruction on a multiversal level and can invade the minds of every living being on planet Earth simultaneously. Strange has shown in not only taking on more powerful characters but with feats that actually relate to Thanos. It depends on who is speaking at this point but if the same concept is being reused to mean something else, not perspective wise then it should be the same thing like TOAA and above all others. You cant use a group as a individual. There are many lt’s as seen from the previous runs, even outside of Starlin. And then sends Thanos to a dimension where Strange took away his normal powers and yet Strange maintained control. The Doctors have too much hax. I absolutely hated that. Thanos was not the only "the end" story printed. Regulator Thanos absorbed entities of one universe and LT. No one in their right mind would assume that to be enough to dethrone TOAA. That is meh lol. He had every body dropped on every single reality. He most certainly did say that. yeah it's getting a bit ridiculous, considering that the quintessence had survived Perpetua and Batman who laugh's saga only for them to literally get stepped on haha, i wonder what nonsense DC is going to come up with for basic superheroes to somehow beat that Darkseid. Yeah that molecule man for sure beats the shit out of beyonder. So if Regulator Thanos with Cosmics > TOAA, Then PR Beyonder who is 1 million x Cosmics should also easily be > TOAA. Or dropping Thanos on his butt with a disciplinary blast when Thanos and Silver Surfer were acting unruly. So no one is fodder here, even to the TOAA. Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. No, he didn’t. It's like the current DC writers don't know what to do with god like characters because it's become a shit show. That is the definition of breaking of hierarchy, and it is in direct conflict with the official. 1 Summary 2 Powers and Stats 3 Others 4 Discussions Doctor Victor Von Doom is the dictator of the small European country Latveria and the archnemesis of the Fantastic Four. I understand your point but there is no breaking of hierarchy here at all. The power of the regulator is universal at best. Previously, we had two tag-teams that has beaten the tag-team of Superman & Sentry twice in both rounds, the first one was Darkseid & Thanos and the second one was Doctor Fate & Doctor Strange. It was Thanos with the power of the regulator that replaced TOAA, and by ”replaced” I didn’t mean he defeated him but exactly as the word itself points towards the fact, that TOAA was absorbed into Thanos and replaced by him. @Aristeaus: Well that is it right? That was just how it was portrayed. Thanos absorbed above all others, not TOAA. Adult Franklin or Multi-eternity the guy oneshotted the quintessence and stated he’s the strongest he’s ever been while being the true form of Darkseid. Even if TOAA is not included, LT, Eternity, Death, Infinity, etc are. Here is another Marvel Editors quote, Andy Schmidt: "Someone else answered this later, but just so you get it from me as well: MARVEL UNIVERSE: THE END is an out of continuity story". Bullshit. Strange never fought Beyonder and was in fact terrified of his power. @Aristeaus: It was one Death shown in the comic. Problem is even with your interpretation it doesn't help your position. I understand your point but there is no breaking of hierarchy here at all. And it looks like Strange is attacking Beyonder in that last shot. Starlin and Brevoorts dislike of one another is well know, and Starlin quit Marvel because of it. If you look at the current comics and compare them to what were written 30 years ago, you would spot a vast difference and contradictions in abundance. DC is honestly making too many multiversal characters not that it’s an issue, but at least have a good narrative even in fed up, but the Black Adam narrative is looking good though. The BEYONDER IS one whole MILLION times stonger than the multiverse which is infinite and but I am talking about the pre-retcon Beyonder because any other Beyonder … Seriously? He’s had multiple upgrades since the classic days, he’s always been that tier; and is better now. He put MOST of his power in a cup and gave it Death and that was how much it cost him to actually kill an abstract being. Who else could it be if not TOAA? This is very well established by marvel. No to both. Where is that from? It can exist in every galaxy and it will still be multiversal if that is what it does. It keeps universes apart but its absorption power can just work on a scale beyond that. The Beyonders powers were considered to be even more vast than that of Eternity and the Living Tribunal. Or perhaps that was multi Death. He is the mysterious leader of the Tarot Club known as The Fool and a Transmigrator who comes from the modern era. TOAA specifically stated that EACH universe has a Regulator. Any Beyonder is fodder to TOAA. In other words how did Starlin mistakenly portray the LT at all when all of these writers did it before? Going with the sorcerers, without The infinity Gauntlet I don't see either of team two being able to break the bonds of Cyttorak, then and easy bfr to a randomly created pocket dimension. As to why it is not called a What If story, likely because What If's are generally pretty contained stories, where as end is rather expanded. It is the regulator at work at this point. TheAnqara for supporting me on creating the page TheUnknownWatcher for lots of things mamythepara for supporting me DarknessReaper9 for fixing the page name Thanos used its power to absorb all entities, even TOAA himself, into his being. They are never mentioned as the same being, and there are implications that they are not. It doesn’t matter their distribution. It isn't even a alternate dimension. But chose to show him virtue. Donny Cates also said that Knull was still alive in that reality as nothing can kill him, which is just as ludicrous as anything Starlin has done/said. If it were multiversal, there would not need to be one in every universe. But that's not actually what happened in their actual encounter, Strange actually probed his mind (with the Eye of Agamotto which isn't as it's depicted here) to discover who and what he was, and what he discovered left Strange stricken with fear and amazement. @Aristeaus: If I am not mistaken he used the word “all reality”, and that should indicate the omniverse as we know it, at most. I don’t know. How do you know? Before this the elder gods were said to have created the cosmos as were Odin and Zeus, and recently that was attributed to the first firmament and Phoenix. Finally there are people commenting! Well, Thanos’s history has been edited several times and even the beginning of the cosmos has been re invented because some writers don’t have enough time to go back and read older comics to go by the same lore, so by definition at least half the company has thrown all the past establishments down the river already. The Ultimate Nullifier is a fictional device of immense power appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics.The device made its first appearance in Fantastic Four volume 1, issue #50 (May 1966), in which Johnny Storm retrieves it from the home of Galactus (as directed by Uatu the Watcher) for the Fantastic Four to employ against the threat of Galactus himself. It depends on which rules you are using. Kids love Cates’ comics. What have you presented other than lies and misconceptions which you seem to have made up for yourself because you disagree with what is going on in comics? Dr Strange and Dr Fate, mainly due to prep. Literally no evidence to suggest that they are the same. It is all about comic sales. Because you dishonestly dismissed the regulator factor, assuming it is the work of the power of the abstracts that Thanos absorbed before that, doesn’t mean that it only is the abstracts that amounted to it. But that's not actually what happened in their actual encounter, Strange actually probed his mind (with the Eye of Agamotto which isn't as it's depicted here) to discover who and what he was, and what he discovered left Strange stricken with fear and amazement. Can't have it both ways. LT was shown dying in an alternate reality in the Thanos run by Donny Cates, so why did nobody complain about that or exclude it from Marvel‘s main continuity? Regulator Thanos and Oblivion being two of them, as they don't make sense without them being separate entities. Strange was able to reverse the affects on Beyonders reality warping on a building, which is something. Don't think Thanos' prep is gonna change the tides either. If The End is not canon, then the infinity trilogy cannot be either. Not the same being? The Doctors are way more impressive imo.. You sure about that? Using Infinity as a example is just wrong as it is not a alternate reality. No... No. Finally a comment! It depends on which rules you are using. Lol even though current Thanos is more powerful, and Classic is still current, quite funny how people still don’t know this. Well I don’t understand what you are trying to say but as far as it goes there were no visible consequences to any of Thanos’ grand stories after Marvel: The End except for Thanos himself and those he know personally. If it isn’t a part of their continuity, why does it have the title “Marvel”? Strange did fight Mystic, who was a Thanosi that rivaled Thanos himself (his own words) and it fits considering Warrior was actually 4 or 5 times physically stronger than Thanos. It doesn’t depend on the End. @jonathancarlton: lol and he can still do that now, in fact he’s more powerful and has upgrades since then. But yeah, I get your point. What he did was debate the pros and cons of trapping an at the time drunk Beyonder in his drunken state and locking him away. However, if any character in the gauntlet scales around or below The Quintessence as a collective and Spectre then they get automatically squished. The son of a Romani witch, Cynthia von Doom, he was orphaned at a young age and grew into a brilliant, stubborn man who used his technology to protect his people. They don’t need to think and follow heavy dialogues with complex thinking because all Cates gives them is just poorly done fight scenes with pretty color lol. He was stated to be more powerful then the entire marvel multiverse.... by millions of times over. The End and Infinity (newer ones ) are not referenced at all in his official report on Marvel.com for this same reason. Darkseid was messing around during his fight against Mordru. @Aristeaus: I am cool with the dead lts by Beyonder though. @divyansh13: Yeah, but The Ultimate Ultimates, First Firmament, True Form Oblivion, the Molecule Man who trapped the dead omniverse into a box, and Regulator Thanos would make him their dog. It is a short summary that doesn’t take accounts for all the comics that the characters have been in. @jonathancarlton: You catch my drift, but one thing for sure, is that Thanos is more powerful now and his feats show it. watch superman knocking this darkseid around too. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. TOAA as we know him already lives in a realm that is separated from it and once the multiverse dies he doesn’t die with it seen from Thanos himself when he observed entropy. What's your reasoning? I am not arguing on his behalf. Those two need more tech/other equipment to prep more effectively, That gives the Doctors even more of an advantage, considering that they can cook up traps, protection etc with their magic, which offers more versatility in comparison to Darkseid & Thanos. 1 Introduction 2 The Rules 3 Notes 4 See also There are several massive problems with using power-scaling for these two prominent franchises that have shared hundreds of different authors over several decades. They could all be the same being, or aspects of each other, but as of currently there is no evidence to support any of those positions. It does. Both of these are reasons for him to be a powerful cosmic, but not on the level of PR Beyonder. Still, that is beside the point because Thanos only used Regulator to absorb them. Mjolnir retcon, Thanos’s origin retcon, Marvel’s Earth retcon... And yet none of them got any complaints... Inconsistencies appear left and right. Bruh i don´t understand this wank about PR Beyonder this dude is no longer in Marvel´s top 5. First Firmament is stronger then Eternity, but that doesn't mean anything to PR Beyonder. But the Thanos killing lt in the future? It doesn’t depend on the End. Galactus is now dead and his power cosmic has been thoroughly spent and it is a disaster to Marvel cosmology but no one prevented King in Black from being published. There could just be one, and it does all the work. He was basically TOAA before TOAA was established. Ladies and gentlemen! Why? In Secret Wars, Beyonders killed LT, and he had a body drop on the same moon in every universe. The abstracts also had to call for help from Molecule Man to beat him and Molecule Man was just a being from within the multiverse itself. Um, Thanos went from no-selling Odin's first energy blast that one-shotted Silver Surfer without a scratch from the Classic era to having a bleeding mouth from getting sucker punched by Sub-Mariner. There has never been a hierachy to break in the first place. Molecule Man goes to show you just how powerful PR Beyonder is. Thus being relegated to being non-canon. He killed EVERY death from across the multiverse. But still, I can't see Classic Thanos getting his heart ripped out of his body by Classic Drax the same way Modern Thanos got his heart ripped out his body by Modern Drax if we go by consistencies. But chose to show him virtue. Who are they? Meanwhile, on Earth-1610, Nick Fury was making the final arrangements for the upcoming and final incursion, and soon after sent all of S.H.I.E.L.D. His point was that PR Beyonder wouldn't even be Top 5, and the only person listed that might be stronger then him is Regulator Thanos. We seem to disagree on Regulators innate power, and no amount of arguing is going to change that. No, Marvel is known to breaking established rules Stan Lee and Kirby had. Today Thor may stomp Spider-Man but tomorrow Spiderman would beat the Beyonder. Each universe does not have their own. Beyonder could be a aspect of TOAA, though there isn't really any evidence for that. Unless of course they have anti god squish feats. True form Oblivion doesn't seem to have much feats. At one point Starlin brought Adam Warlock back, and Marvel put out a company wide no-use to prevent him from causing more trouble within the establish hierarchy. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The way the story goes is that Starlin submitted the idea for the series, as basically another infinity gauntlet, which was approved, but when he submitted half the story to the editors they had serious problems as it conflicted with hierarchy and in general wasn't what Starlin had proposed. It wasn’t those Abstracts that took down TOAA. Where is your proof for that? Beyonder is fodder and doesn’t compare to TOAA. Future Thanos probably has some limitations but they weren’t explained. was everything outside the Marvel Multiverse, (Infinite Beyond), was GOD before Genesis, (a Supreme Being). A very good panel, I must say. Regulator Thanos is universal. Anyway, so my point is that while we can use it as a character for battles and what have you, you should not use breaking of established rules to prove your points. Those two need more tech/other equipment to prep more effectively. That single panel annoys the hell out of me. Nearly everything is in conflict with the official. Strange never fought Beyonder (cosmic threats sure but that's a huge jump) and was in fact terrified of his power. @divyansh13: From what i remember 8th cosmo Eternit embraces Living Tribunal. Beyonder was around before TOAA was established, unlike someone like Fulcrum. You said it my man! @king-ragnar@battle123axe@bramvanelteren@punyaamrit:@cosmic_demon: @captfalcon725@asgardianweapon@ouroborik: @thevoidofdeath@captfalcon725@cull_obsidian@punyaamrit: Well, I thank you whoever voted in the battle poll, but I would also appreciate it if you leave a comment behind in the battle thread as well. @jonathancarlton: classic Strange fights beings like Beyonder and Zom, Thanos and Uxas don't have really any good feats like that. At best he is multi-versal, and PR Beyonder is by his very being Omniversal. And here, all the regulators could be special and multiversal. @Aristeaus: They are the same being. I think it is quite cool. The infinite beyond doesn’t seem to give him a lot of power at all seeing as he struggled to kill Mistress Death. Doctor Victor Von Doom is a fictional supervillain appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics.Created by writer-editor Stan Lee and artist/co-plotter Jack Kirby, the character made his debut in The Fantastic Four #5 (July 1962). As far as the difference, its not very clear. It exists in every universe. I don’t know. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Starlin wasn’t retconning anything but was writing based on his and previous canon before they got retconned. He is a Beyonder and God of the Fool Pathway. Then you have Thanos messing around with Odin. It has history from the End, which continues with another storylines as well. Its not in the continuity of Marvel at all. I didn't tag so many people just so that they can only vote and not comment, dattebayo. 's fleet towards Earth-616. Not the editors or writers. It isn’t an “End storyline”. At absolute best you have 2 characters that are equal to PR Beyonder. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. Then there is the fact that there are half a dozen cosmics now credited with creation, which gets real confusing real quick. Apart from the classic era, before 2000s, the most notable appearances are in the infinity run. That wasn't Earth-616 Thanos who got arrested by NYPD, it was Earth-57780 Thanos who got arrested by NYPD. Boys and girls of all ages! None of them would be top 5 on their own. If it isn’t a part of their continuity, why does it have the title “Marvel”? All he did so far was stomp the Quintessence. I was getting worried that every Comic Viners must have left Comic Vine or something like that. 3 or 4 times now just this year and they were all just wtf moments. PR Beyonder is the TOAA of his own multiverse. Such as Starlin himself having Strange easily defeat a clone described in Thanos' own words to rival his own power. I get the comic sales angle, but damn that one panel really infuriates me. lol. Marvel.com is about as official as it gets. Infinity Conflict is part of a The End storyline, and if The End is not canon, then Infinity Conflict cannot be either. Goes to show you just how far Starlin went in some of his shit, that they let Cates do that crazy shit lol. You cannot kill one death and have it effect the entire multiverse. He defeated King Thanos and Phoenix Force Thane in a fight after the Quarry of Creation amp. He was willing to (and knew he would) die to protect humanity if Beyonder decided on a whim to destroy them, because of how dangerous and inconsequential it was to him. @jonathancarlton: Yeah, the confusion comes from this page.Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. @jonathancarlton: Yeah, the confusion comes from this page. It has got to be the single worst panel in Marvel history. He never said it once and if he did why didn’t he publish it down the handbook instead of vaguely stating it elsewhere? Though interesting to note that editors have directly compared What If? Starlin has a habit of breaking established rules, specifically with LT and TOAA. Galactus is the first being to appear in 616 cosmos of course because he existed before the previous Big Bang but from Thanos’s perspective the beginning of all things is the nexus of all reality where Chaos and Order live. It could appear anywhere it wishes to be. That's like a big power decrease during the Modern era. Don't you mean stronger than that tier? Does it matter its distribution? Question, has Pre-Crisis Darkseid ever fought against Pre-Crisis Doctor Fate or has Classic Thanos ever fought against Classic Doctor Strange? It is your assumption they have to be limited to universal in power. There's a reason the doctors don't have a history of facing those respective characters from their verses. Regardless, he is the TOAA of his multiverse, which is much much larger then the Marvel multiverse. Also, not sure if you are aware of this, but there is only ONE Living Tribunal. I am very surprised that no one has brought up The Great Darkness Saga discussion just like the last time so far. @jonathancarlton: lol and he can still do that now, in fact he’s more powerful and has upgrades since then. Shrouded in the fog of history and darkness, who or what is the lurking evil that murmurs into our ears? There is a reason why Thanos had to absorb various entities before hand. So how is LT one? Likely something to do with M-Bodies or some weird way of showing LT being multiversal. There are many Thanoses but still the 616 one is very special, just like canon Superman is more special than other Supermen according to Forger. The End and Infinity are not within the marvel multiverse, as they are not in the Marvel continuity at all, and I'll prove that here in a second. They are entirely different beings. On one side of the Multiverse, Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, and the Molecule Man were confronting the Beyonders.They demanded to know who dared stand before them, and Doom presented himself. You can’t use one feat and say he hasn’t improved, his feats as a whole show he has; check a respect thread; because if that’s the case Thanos got handcuffed in the classic days lol. Classic strange is like SA superman. He said all of the marvel reality, which encompasses TOAA. Not really since they are comparable in stats except for haxs. By that same logic, PR Beyonder is millions of times stronger then all the abstracts in Marvel. None of which have been confirmed to be aspects, but that is the reason for aspect speculation in the first place, as its pretty much the only plausible, currently available, theory. @kokemabb200@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf@jaycool2@vooon@oceanmaster21, @agentsandman@cosmic_reign@citizensentry@silverplatinum@serrure@shenkuei@darkseid1006@cosmicallyaware1@jonez120@laylah@wastelandman@laylah@jrupert1@jaycool2@conner_wolf, @dondave@killemall@hellionvulcan@cheesesticks@nighthunder@homicidalmaniac@king_stranglehold_da_first@serrure@thor_parker82@hulkage@comicdude360@misterwhisper@notatreeabush@emperorthanos@agentsandman@ouroborik@bullettimer@cosmic_reign@darth_wayne@jaycool2@cull_obsidian@battle123axe@onepieceverse@cull_obsidian@superentity@rac95@causeimbatman@death2heretics@kingfrieza, @beatboks1@wastelandman@jrupert1@agentsandman@lanniblehecter@revan2424, @the_imperator@themagicstik@comicstooge@ancient_0f_days@demonknights@nighthunder@patrat18@zeroplus@darkseid1006@ouroborik@hollow_point@emperorthanos@darth_wayne@sly_141@kingcurry30@cull_obsidian@lanniblehecter@onepieceverse@chronicplane@blackpantherisb, @oceanmaster21@ouroborik@heraldofganthet@batman3000@matchesmalone21@blackpantherisb, @cable_extreme@thor_parker82@onepieceverse@jaycool2@newworldorder@conner_wolf, @cosmicallyaware1@primez0ne@cosmic_reign@jaycool2@educated. It is self preservation. Stops and dies at Eternity or Living Tribunal. They are the same character. Special thanks. @jonathancarlton: Does the part with no equipment means that neither Team just starts with equipment or that they are also not allowed to get equipment during their prep time? That is his own words and they are more of an exaggeration if it took him that much power just to eradicate one fundamental abstract from the multiverse. It wasn't the portrayal of LT, but the dialog suggesting that there are multiple LTs... which is just empirically not true. I think he needs more feats. Infinity specifically depends on The End. and The End. Well, Thanos’s history has been edited several times and even the beginning of the cosmos has been re invented because some writers don’t have enough time to go back and read older comics to go by the same lore, so by definition at least half the company has thrown all the past establishments down the river already. Shouldn't the Doctors be able to murder stomp the Dark Lords? @Aristeaus: Author statements from outside of their officially published sources barely mean anything though. and in comparison with the entire Marvel Reality the Beyond Realm was like an Ocean. Darkseid and Thanos isn't really that impressive featwise. Event Synopsis. @thor-el: idk about Ultimate ultimates but isn't first firmament below LT? First Firmament is stronger then Eternity, but that doesn't mean anything to PR Beyonder. Maybe you can explain how someone who can kill LT and a bunch of cosmics, needed Black-Bolt, someone who couldn't even kill Thanos, to kill a bunch of celestials. Not a very fun position to argue against. He never seemed to have acknowledged the higher concepts that Marvel has within itself by that time or the existence of TOAA, who also was separated from creation itself. Its just basic logic. Or perhaps that was multi Death. Klein Moretti is the main protagonist of Lord of the Mysteries. The Editor in Chief of marvel explained this. Doctor Strange never fought against Beyonder though, even if he did, it would be an outlier since he openly admitted that Living Tribunal could kill him with a thought. Why is it not a what if story instead? With the rising tide of steam power and machinery, who can come close to being a Beyonder? @Aristeaus: But it is a site, though. It is I, @jonathancarlton here to host another epic Detective Comics vs Marvel Comics tag-team battle poll thread here in Comic Vine! This wasn't even them at their strongest since Thanos has yet to fully develop his powers and Darkseid was weakened. It was one Death shown in the comic. I am talking about published sources. How does Thanos knows how powerful Thanosi is? @Aristeaus: He only said marvel multiverse. Appearing anywhere he wants within the marvel multiverse. They have have the power and outclass them in versatility. Even if you disagree with my reasonings, at least I presented a argument. Ultimates are a group of cosmics. Oblivion is just a rival of Infinity, and came into existence with Eternity, Death, and Infinity. He needed to get stronger, even with the regulator, and then needed his past selfs help to accomplish the feat. Tom Brevoort has publicly stated that it is not in marvel continuity. And he has shown his magic can affect him. Don't get me started on the King Thanos storyline. The Tribunal serves ONE master and even if it isn’t TOAA it is greater than TOAA because The Tribunal admitted he has no knowledge of beings greater than The Above All Others who rules all universes and even beyond that. @Aristeaus: No, it is your fantasy. I was getting worried that everyone must has left or something like that! Adam Warlock from an alternate reality has the power of his living tribunal while in Thanos reality there exists another living tribunal. It has history from the End, which continues with another storylines as well. Can you explain the difference please? Beyonder in his recap brings up the possibility of Strange under those conditions being able to get rid of the threat Beyonder posed to their multiverse. There is no proof one way or the other, so just gonna move on. Its function is to keep universes apart. Oblivion is just a rival of Infinity, and came into existence with Eternity, Death, and Infinity. That gives the Doctors even more of an advantage, considering that they can cook up traps, protection etc with their magic, which offers more versatility in comparison to Darkseid & Thanos. There is only one LT, but Regulator heavily implies the opposite. Not that I disagree with you. "haha cry noob 4th braker I am stronger than yo haha cry n000000000000000000000000b" cc after he realised he was a lot stroger than 4th breaker z sans tba. Editors are a higher source then even the writer themselves, as they are responsible for maintaining the storylines. He was willing to (and knew he would) die to protect humanity if Beyonder decided on a whim to destroy them, because of how dangerous he was and inconsequential it was to him. Curious on where you saw him struggle to kill Mistress Death. That quote is from Marvel.com. You can’t use one feat and say he hasn’t improved, his feats as a whole show he has, check a respect thread; because if that’s the case Thanos got handcuffed in the classic days lol. Insanely powerful. It is a different type of power.

Barrowell Green Appointments, Cro Information Leaflet No 1, Rdck Yard Waste, Racial Profiling: Definition Canada, Mexico Debt Crisis, Lancaster Police Station, First Trust Global Wind Energy Etf,